9. oktober 2015

Boudica (61 AD): “Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves”

I år 61 anførte Kelter-dronningen Boudica et oprør mod de romerske højborge Colchester, St. Albans og London. Hele 70.000 mennesker blev brutalt nedslagtet, ikke bare romere, men også britiske kollaboratører. Her lidt fra hendes tale før det sidste slag, som Kelterne tabte.

“You have learned by actual experience how different freedom is from slavery. Hence, although some among you may previously, through ignorance of which was better, have been deceived by the alluring promises of the Romans, yet now that you have tried both, you have learned how great a mistake you made in preferring an imported despotism to your ancestral mode of life, and you have come to realize how much better is poverty with no master than wealth with slavery. … Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves. (Boudiccas, 61 AD, Dot-Domesday)

(Thomas Thornycroft’ statue af Boudica, Westminster Pier, London)

“This is probably the most horrible episode which our Island has known. We see the crude and corrupt beginnings of a higher civilisation blottet out by the ferocious uprising of the native tribes. Still, it is the primary right of men to die and kill for the land they live in, and to punish with exceptional severity all members of their own race who have warmed their hands at the invaders’ hearth.” (Winston Churchill, A History of the English-speaking peoples (Bd. I, 1956, s. 20).

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  1. Det er jo smukke ord man kun kan tilslutte sig som nationalkonservativ. Desværre ville Boudica’s oprør nok ikke have samme effekt og resultat hvis det skete i dag, det er trods alt begrænset hvor meget oprør man kan starte med en schweitzerkniv, selvom den har proptrækker

    Kommentar by redneck — 9. oktober 2015 @ 11:24

  2. Meget a propos – københavns kommune kan stemme nej til 200 flygtninge og samtidig påtvinge resten af landet at tage ufoholdsmæssigt mange flygtninge
    http://ekstrabladet.dk/nationen/misundelig-her-faar-de-lov-til-at-stemme-nej-til-flygtninge/5773364

    Mon ikke også denne kommune gerne ville have haft mulighed for at sige nej?
    http://jyllands-posten.dk/indland/ECE8100422/Borgmester-Flere-flygtninge-kan-betyde-lukning-af-plejehjem-og-skoler/

    Kommentar by redneck — 9. oktober 2015 @ 11:27

  3. Ja, det er fantastisk! Dengang var folk meget mere intelligente, end de er i dag! Nu kan man så læse, at Frankrig har bombet isis-træningslejre omkring Raqqah, isis-højborgen! Øh, var det ikke på tide, Frankrig??! De har længe vidst, står der på tekst tv, at disse træningslejre er til for at uddanne bestialske, muhammedanske, kujonagtige mordere og lemlæstere, som skal slippes løs på gaderne i Europa for at gå til angreb på ubevæbnede, uskyldige civile!!

    Herhjemme taler politikere om, hvor de kan skære i danskernes tegnebog, eller man taler om kystsikring… Det går godt. Medierne har bestemt, at man kun skal tale om hygge-nygge og hjemlige ting; lidt ligesom strudsen, der gemmer hovedet i sandet og håber, at fjenden ikke får øje på den…. Bøv!

    Kommentar by Andersine — 9. oktober 2015 @ 13:11

  4. Jeg har altid betragtet Boudica som det stof ægte heltinder er gjort af. Hun tabte ja. Men hellere dø stående end leve krybende…

    Kommentar by Margrethe — 9. oktober 2015 @ 14:17

  5. @3 – kystsikring ja… og “skandalen” med VWs snydesoftware. Det er mange gange værre end invasionen af Europa

    Kommentar by redneck — 9. oktober 2015 @ 14:38

  6. Boudica-historien er skabt af eftertiden til intern politisk brug.– Dna forskning har vist at der skete ingen blodsblanding mellem angelsaksere,danere og keltere. Sidstnævnte blev udryddet eller fordrevet. Skotterne har samme gener som den øvrige engelske befolkning.–Engelske poeter og forfattere påvirkede befolkningen til at overtage dele af den keltiske kultur.

    Kommentar by dansker — 9. oktober 2015 @ 17:58

  7. Winston Churchill om sin forgænger – Neville Chamberlain:

    “De havde valget mellem krig eller vanære. De valgte vanære, nu får de krig”

    Jan Hedegaard: Churchill-Citater. Ordrigt, åndrigt & nedrigt.
    Netop udkommet. En oplagt julegaveidé.

    Kommentar by Thorbjørn — 9. oktober 2015 @ 19:50

  8. Dansker: “Boudica-historien er skabt af eftertiden til intern politisk brug.– Dna forskning har vist at der skete ingen blodsblanding mellem angelsaksere,danere og keltere.”

    Nej det viser Dna-forskning absolut ikke, af den simple logiske årsag, at der ikke findes “keltere”. Det er ren nonsens.

    At de GÆLISKE folk (hvis det er dem der hentydes til)i dag associeres med keltere er blot en skrøne og med dine ord: skabt af eftertiden til politisk brug.
    “keltisk kultur” er blot en myte, og myten om, at de gæliske folk er efterkommere af kelterne, er netop blot en skrøne som opstår ud af den blå luft.

    En så latterlig skrøne helt uden kilder kan selvfølgelig ikke accepteres som bevis for tesen om, at Boudicca er en opfundet historie, netop fordi Boudicca-fortællingen faktisk understøttes yderst detaljeret af så sobre kilder som historikerne Tacitus og Cassius Dio.

    Boudiccas navn er desuden attesteret på flere inskriptioner, og arkæologien har overbevisende demonstreret, at både Colchester og London blev brændt ned til grunden.

    Kommentar by jesper hansen — 10. oktober 2015 @ 02:19

  9. Boudiccas tale, (ifølge Cassius Dio) er eviggrøn:

    “You have learned by actual experience how different freedom is from slavery. Hence, although some among you may previously, through ignorance of which was better, have been deceived by the alluring promises of the Romans, yet now that you have tried both, you have learned how great a mistake you made in preferring an imported despotism to your ancestral mode of life, and you have come to realize how much better is poverty with no master than wealth with slavery. 2 For what treatment is there of the most shameful or grievous sort that we have not suffered ever since these men made their appearance in Britain? Have we not been robbed entirely of most of our possessions, and those the greatest, while for those that remain we pay taxes? 3 Besides pasturing and tilling for them p87all our other possessions, do we not pay a yearly tribute for our very bodies? How much better it would be to have been sold to masters once for all than, possessing empty titles of freedom, to have to ransom ourselves every year! How much better to have been slain and to have perished than to go about with a tax on our heads! Yet why do I mention death? 4 For even dying is not free of cost with them; nay, you know what fees we deposit even for our dead. Among the rest of mankind death frees even those who are in slavery to others; only in the case of the Romans do the very dead remain alive for their profit. 5 Why is it that, though none of us has any money (how, indeed, could we, or where would we get it?), we are stripped and despoiled like a murderer’s victims? And why should the Romans be expected to display moderation as time goes on, when they have behaved toward us in this fashion at the very outset, when all men show consideration even for the beasts they have newly captured?

    “But, to speak the plain truth, it is we who have made ourselves responsible for all these evils, in that we allowed them to set foot on the island in the first place instead of expelling them at once as we did their famous Julius Caesar, — yes, and in that we did not deal with them while they were still far away as we dealt with Augustus and with Gaius Caligula and make even the attempt to sail hither a formidable thing. 2 As a consequence, although we inhabit so large an island, or rather a continent, one might say, that is encircled by the sea, and although we possess a veritable world of our own and are so separated by the ocean from all the rest of mankind p89that we have been believed to dwell on a different earth and under a different sky, and that some of the outside world, aye, even their wisest men, have not hitherto known for a certainty even by what name we are called, we have, notwithstanding all this, been despised and trampled underfoot by men who nothing else than how to secure gain. 3 However, even at this late day, though we have not done so before, let us, my countrymen and friends and kinsmen, — for I consider you all kinsmen, seeing that you inhabit a single island and are called by one common name, — let us, I say, do our duty while we still remember what freedom is, that we may leave to our children not only its appellation but also its reality. For, if we utterly forget the happy state in which we were born and bred, what, pray, will they do, reared in bondage?

    “All this I say, not with the purpose of inspiring you with a hatred of present conditions, — that hatred you already have, — nor with fear for the future, — that fear you already have, — but of commending you because you now of our own accord choose the requisite course of action, and of thanking you for so readily co-operating with me and with each other. 2 Have no fear whatever of the Romans; for they are superior to us neither in numbers nor in bravery. And here is the proof: they have protected themselves with helmets and breastplates and greaves and yet further provided themselves with palisades and walls and trenches to make sure of suffering no harm by an incursion of their enemies. For they are p91influenced by their fears when they adopt this kind of fighting in preference to the plan we follow of rough and ready action. 3 Indeed, we enjoy such a surplus of bravery, that we regard our tents as safer than their walls and our shields as affording greater protection than their whole suits of mail. As a consequence, we when victorious capture them, and when overpowered elude them; and if we ever choose to retreat anywhere, we conceal ourselves in swamps and mountains so inaccessible that we can be neither discovered or taken. 4 Our opponents, however, can neither pursue anybody, by reason of their heavy armour, nor yet flee; and if they ever do slip away from us, they take refuge in certain appointed spots, where they shut themselves up as in a trap. 5 But these are not the only respects in which they are vastly inferior to us: there is also the fact that they cannot bear up under hunger, thirst, cold, or heat, as we can. They require shade and covering, they require kneaded bread and wine and oil, and if any of these things fails them, they perish; for us, on the other hand, any grass or root serves as bread, the juice of any plant as oil, any water as wine, any tree as a house. 6 Furthermore, this region is familiar to us and is our ally, but to them it is unknown and hostile. As for the rivers, we swim them naked, whereas they do not across them easily even with boats. Let us, therefore, go against them trusting boldly to good fortune. Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves.”

    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Cassius_Dio/62*.html

    Kommentar by jesper hansen — 10. oktober 2015 @ 09:11

  10. 8. JeHa-Der er så megen videnskabelig og litterær dokumentation på området, der modsiger dit indlæg,at det giver anledning til behageligt selvstudium for dig til udvidelse af din horisont.–Ill. Videnskab,videnskabelige tidsskrifter og bøger, leksika—–9. er ikke indbefattet.

    Kommentar by dansker — 10. oktober 2015 @ 11:25

  11. Dna-forskning modbeviser ikke Boudicca, som i detaljer er velattesteret i kilderne, ligesom Dna-forskning intet har at sige om sprog.

    Derfor kan primærkilderne ikke bare ignoreres.

    Julius Cæsar nævner f.eks. i Bello Gallico, at det er germanerne der er de oprindelige keltere.

    anagrammatisk set er Germanid/germanic er faktisk intet andet end danmark (dinamereg/ginamereg) bagfra.

    altså boustrofedon, præcis som ordene tour – route, skat – tax, led – del osv.

    Kommentar by jesper hansen — 10. oktober 2015 @ 23:07

  12. Iøvrigt, dansker. Din keltiske sprogteori fandtes slet ikke før 1700-tallet.

    “The term “Celtic” was first used to describe this language group by Edward Lhuyd in 1707″

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_languages

    Kommentar by jesper hansen — 11. oktober 2015 @ 00:58

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